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Tuesday, May 05, 2009

For my 2nd Amendment Loving Friends

There is an interesting post on Domestic Terrorists about this new Anti-Gun Treaty that our government is pushing for. Benjamin Franklin makes a great argument in his post, actually taking you through our Rights and what Rights this treaty violates.


Anonymous said...

The 2nd amendment is under siege everywhere today. We need to preserve the right to own a gun if you choose. I believe in hurdles to owning guns such as a background check and waiting period, but anything more would be unacceptable! Check out to let your voice be heard about increasing government intrusion in our lives.

Jessica said...

So what do we do about the violence spilling across the border? An armed citizenry on either side of the Rio Grande hasn't worked yet, civilians are fleeing (North, if they in any way can) and law enforcement is out-gunned. It's not "their" problem anymore, it's ours, and neither the last administration nor this one (nor any, for that matter) has successfully sealed the southern border. The guns being used originate in the United States or are traceable to trade here. What do we do?

Cygnus MacLlyr said...

"Law enforcement... outgunned"???

I call BULLS$!T!!!

have ye SEEN the stuffsa 'they have, which we have no access to/

Equal access; that seems "fair".

[HA! Good Luck...]

Cygnus MacLlyr said...

Stikky shift key. computers SUKK!!!!

Phelan said...

Only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S. A large percentage of the guns recovered are not sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S. In truth there is a variety of sources for these guns, Asia, Russia, South America to name a few. (Thus the 90% number you hear)

What can we do? We could start by getting people to understand that crossing the border illegally, is illegal. That it really is a crime. We need to stop attacking people that make citizens arrests, with law suits and slander. We need to keep screaming until we are actually heard by those we voted into office. And support those that work hard to protect our border.

We need to be armed to protect ourselves.

There use to be a saying. That is California was ever invaded, by ocean, that the invaders would never get passed the first block. Everyone had guns. (And I am not talking about gangs, but regular people)

David said...

The word Crime is a very technical term. A Crime is punished differently than a Civil Offense. Immigration laws have both elements. Crossing the border illegally is a Civil Offense. Smuggling illegal aliens is a Crime.
The problem I have with some anti-illegal immigration stands is that they are often judgmental. Sure, I hear people tell me all the time that they are just being practical but it is easy to see that they are not being practical but are being judgmental, forming all kinds of pictures in their minds.
No one wants a border out of control but don't put a person in jail simply because they are trying to look for a better life. And please, hunting down WOMEN AND CHILDREN in the desert with automatic weapons and then patting ourselves in the back for being Patriotic is just plain stupid and mean, and most definitely AGAINST OUR CHRISTIAN traditions.
I wish all bad immigrants would disappear. I wish ALL bad people, citizens included would go away. But who determines what's bad? I am so imperfect, I am surprised God doesn't strike me down every day of my life.
So it comes down to judging again. Jesus did not own a gun. And Benjamin Franklin lived in very different times, under the threat of attack from a WORLD SUPERPOWER.
We are in no such threat and if China decided to attack, my gun would be of little use against the instruments of modern warfare.
People have owned guns for a long time now and crime continues.
Do you think now that I am anti-gun? I am not. I just hate the reasons people give for owning one. Own one because it's fun to shoot in a sporting event, or hunting not because the boogie man is hiding behind every door.
Also, the government is you. Government is the people getting together to achieve common goals. Sometimes, because we are all different, we don't get what we want. It's called Civilization. We give and take and we can organize and vote to change things. I hate paying taxes, but who the heck is going to fix the roads? Put public electric lights? Build water systems? Do you really want the police to go away and have some guy who is accountable to NO ONE provide for HIS security? (he won't give a darn about yours)
Sure our Government is imperfect. It is imperfect because you and I are imperfect.

I am shutting up now.

Phelan said...

David, you don't have to shut up. :D I am the first born in the US. My father's family came here legally, just to make it clear I am not anti-imagration, just anti-illegal immigration. I feel we need to shut down the border and get our own stuff in order before bringing in more people. But I know that would never happen, and am not bitter about it.

I don't believe it is patriotic to shoot anyone, if not in self defense from an armed assailant. But I do think we should have the right to make citizens arrests without consequences (if the arrest it justified)

I own guns to protect my animals and my family from predators, mainly the four legged kind. I don't hunt (as of now) and am not overly paranoid about someone breaking in.

I also feel that the government is no longer We the people. It is them, the brand. Too much self interest in power and money to actually be us anymore.

Thanks for stopping by David.

David said...

I love a good debate. I especially love a good debate with reasonable people.
I understand your feelings about citizens arrests. Every time I see someone flick their cigarette butt out the window of their moving car --don't they put ashtrays in cars anymore? :-) just kidding...kind of...
But you and I both know how quickly this would get out of hand, especially considering the incredible amounts of arrestable offenses on the books. And can a 90 pound woman arrest a 200 pound man? More than likely, No. So this citizen arrest business will be doable mostly by A)Men B)Big Men C)Men with weapons.
And whereas seeing my neighbor water on non-watering days may make my blood boil, it may not bother you so much.
I don't blindly obey the government but I won't pass too much judgment on it until I get more involved.
By the way, I fought the Post Office on curb-side mailboxes and lost (I did not like to be ordered to get one when none of my neighbors had one --they had grandfathered in it turns out, and then be threatened with the withholding of my mail) but I got a really good look at the process and learned there are many ways to effect change. Heck, I even gained a little respect for our Republican Congressman(disclaimer; I am a Democrat) for taking my side, and standing by my side, on this.
Still, I really do understand the frustration with it. I still hate the IRS and wish it gone.
I have been reading your blog and I really like it. TIA, This is America :-)

Phelan said...

Ashtray's in cars. . . some newer models do not have them. Still, they make them to hook into your car.

Citizens arrests could get out of hand. How many times have you stopped on Broadway, got out of your car, shot your gun into the air 3 times before crossing? Never? well you should, it is on the Kansas law books. But there does come a point where we should be able to make arrests, or even video tape the crime so that it can be handed over to the proper authorities. But then you have people sueing over violations of privacy when that happens. It is a catch 22, but still, we need to be able to help those in trouble, and attempt to catch the bad guy. Neighborhood watch is only a sign any more.

My biggest issue with this treaty however is the possibility of extradition if an American citizen breaks an international law, even though it is within our constitutional rights. It really shouldn't matter if one is pro or anti gun.

Me? reasonable? hahahaha!

Jessica said...

Wow, this got really interesting. But I still think desperate people will do desperate things (i.e. come here illegally) no matter how clearly they understand the illegality. How many prostitutes don't know what they are doing is wrong? they all know it, they still do it, for many desperate reasons. And I still say law enforcement is outgunned, if only because they are bound by law to use their weapons in a responsible fashions (i.e. avoiding civilian casualties if possible), while criminals recognize no such restricions.

Jessica said...

This got me thinking last night, the Second Ammendment seems to be protecting our right to armed rebellion against an unjust government. Is that still possible without resorting to outright terrorism? I don't think civilian militias can compete with modern armies. That's an arms race no one short of Warren Buffet could afford to win. Do we still need protection for that right, when we have (at least technically, I know abuses are common enough) a representative government?

Phelan said...

Jessica, you are correct, desperate people will do desperate things. However not everyone thinks along those lines. And should not be used as a justification. There are legal ways to go about things, such as seeking amentisty, or getting work and school visa's rather than destroying private and public property, killing cattle and other livestock and harrassing people. Not all illegals are horrible people, and not all legals are good people. But this post really didn't start off to talk about illegal immagration.

As for criminals, you are right, criminals do not obey the laws, so why take guns away from law abiding citizens.

The 2nd amendment as it stands today is still very much needed. We do indeed need to be vigilant against a tyrannical government. And the way that our government has been growing these past 20 + years, many feel that civil unrest will not be enough to bring us back to a locally ran governmental Country. As for the armed forces, they sign papers pledging not to turn their guns on American Citizens. Of course this is not a done deal, for if our Commander in Chief decides that calling up arms against his or her own people is needed, most will follow orders, however many will not, and will turn and protect the citizens as is their duty.

There is an interesting project forming, called the Oath Keepers. It is slowly gaining in strength.

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